Discussion:
[MG] Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System
Steve Coffman
2018-01-26 17:31:53 UTC
Permalink
In my struggle to understand what Michal Å těpánek has been trying to convey regarding his perspective of our efforts
or at least of mine, I decided to approach him *off-line* as I was becoming increasing frustrated (and somewhat embarrassed) at my inability to grasp what he was describing. This was partially due to some language barrier I suspect, but mostly due to my lack of understanding of the field/science of Systems Analysis, and likely as well (I think) to some reduced mental bandwidth issues on my part. :)

That said, Michal very patiently continued and recommended I read the following link.

http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/

Here are some tantalizing excerpts:
From: Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System

By Donella Meadows~

6. The structure of information flows (who does and does not have access to information).

There was this subdivision of identical houses, the story goes, except that for some reason the electric meter in some of the houses was installed in the basement and in others it was installed in the front hall, where the residents could see it constantly, going round faster or slower as they used more or less electricity. With no other change, with identical prices, electricity consumption was 30 percent lower in the houses where the meter was in the front hall.

We systems-heads love that story because it’s an example of a high leverage point in the information structure of the system. It’s not a parameter adjustment, not a strengthening or weakening of an existing loop. It’s a NEW LOOP, delivering feedback to a place where it wasn’t going before.

A more recent example is the Toxic Release Inventory — the U.S. government’s requirement, instituted in 1986, that every factory releasing hazardous air pollutants report those emissions publicly every year. Suddenly every community could find out precisely what was coming out of the smokestacks in town. There was no law against those emissions, no fines, no determination of “safe” levels, just information. But by 1990 emissions dropped 40 percent. They’ve continued to go down since, not so much because of citizen outrage as because of corporate shame. One chemical company that found itself on the Top Ten Polluters list reduced its emissions by 90 percent, just to “get off that list.”


Compelling feedback. Suppose taxpayers got to specify on their return forms what government services their tax payments must be spent on. (Radical democracy!) Suppose any town or company that puts a water intake pipe in a river had to put it immediately DOWNSTREAM from its own outflow pipe. Suppose any public or private official who made the decision to invest in a nuclear power plant got the waste from that plant stored on his/her lawn. Suppose (this is an old one) the politicians who declare war were required to spend that war in the front lines.
4. The power to add, change, evolve, or self-organize system structure.

The most stunning thing living systems and some social systems can do is to change themselves utterly by creating whole new structures and behaviors. In biological systems that power is called evolution. In human economies it’s called technical advance or social revolution. In systems lingo it’s called self-organization.

Self-organization means changing any aspect of a system lower on this list — adding completely new physical structures, such as brains or wings or computers — adding new negative or positive loops, or new rules. The ability to self-organize is the strongest form of system resilience. A system that can evolve can survive almost any change, by changing itself. The human immune system has the power to develop new responses to (some kinds of ) insults it has never before encountered. The human brain can take in new information and pop out completely new thoughts.

2. The mindset or paradigm out of which the system — its goals, structure, rules, delays, parameters — arises.

Another of Jay Forrester’s famous systems sayings goes: it doesn’t matter how the tax law of a country is written. There is a shared idea in the minds of the society about what a “fair” distribution of the tax load is. Whatever the rules say, by fair means or foul, by complications, cheating, exemptions or deductions, by constant sniping at the rules, actual tax payments will push right up against the accepted idea of “fairness.”

The shared idea in the minds of society, the great big unstated assumptions — unstated because unnecessary to state; everyone already knows them — constitute that society’s paradigm, or deepest set of beliefs about how the world works. There is a difference between nouns and verbs. Money measures something real and has real meaning (therefore people who are paid less are literally worth less). Growth is good. Nature is a stock of resources to be converted to human purposes. Evolution stopped with the emergence of Homo sapiens. One can “own” land. Those are just a few of the paradigmatic assumptions of our current culture, all of which have utterly dumfounded other cultures, who thought them not the least bit obvious.

The ancient Egyptians built pyramids because they believed in an afterlife. We build skyscrapers, because we believe that space in downtown cities is enormously valuable. (Except for blighted spaces, often near the skyscrapers, which we believe are worthless.) Whether it was Copernicus and Kepler showing that the earth is not the center of the universe, or Einstein hypothesizing that matter and energy are interchangeable, or Adam Smith postulating that the selfish actions of individual players in markets wonderfully accumulate to the common good, people who have managed to intervene in systems at the level of paradigm have hit a leverage point that totally transforms systems.

You could say paradigms are harder to change than anything else about a system, and therefore this item should be lowest on the list, not second-to-highest. But there’s nothing physical or expensive or even slow in the process of paradigm change. In a single individual it can happen in a millisecond. All it takes is a click in the mind, a falling of scales from eyes, a new way of seeing. Whole societies are another matter — they resist challenges to their paradigm harder than they resist anything else.

So how do you change paradigms? Thomas Kuhn, who wrote the seminal book about the great paradigm shifts of science,7 <http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/#seven> has a lot to say about that. In a nutshell, you keep pointing at the anomalies and failures in the old paradigm, you keep coming yourself, and loudly and with assurance from the new one, you insert people with the new paradigm in places of public visibility and power. You don’t waste time with reactionaries; rather you work with active change agents and with the vast middle ground of people who are open-minded.

Systems folks would say you change paradigms by modeling a system, which takes you outside the system and forces you to see it whole. We say that because our own paradigms have been changed that way.

A Final Caution

Back from the sublime to the ridiculous, from enlightenment to caveats. There is so much that has to be said to qualify this list. It is tentative and its order is slithery. There are exceptions to every item that can move it up or down the order of leverage. Having had the list percolating in my subconscious for years has not transformed me into a Superwoman. The higher the leverage point, the more the system will resist changing it — that’s why societies have to rub out truly enlightened beings.

Magical leverage points are not easily accessible, even if we know where they are and which direction to push on them. There are no cheap tickets to mastery. You have to work hard at it, whether that means rigorously analyzing a system or rigorously casting off your own paradigms and throwing yourself into the humility of Not Knowing. In the end, it seems that mastery has less to do with pushing leverage points than it does with strategically, profoundly, madly letting go.


This helps a lot Michal. I imagine I'll be referring to this list for some time to come. Particularly # 1. (if you never hear from me again...you’ll know why.)

Thanks so much,

Steve
Michal Štěpánek
2018-02-05 10:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Thank you a lot Steve,
as I see it now my explanation was too complicated, there are two terms
that may explain it all:

1. Sociology of happiness
2. Leverage points

I have a question for all. Please, are these two terms enough to understand
the concept? Please, does it say something to you? No, is an acceptable
answer :)

The old stuff about the leverage points ...
http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/


Cheers
m.
Post by Steve Coffman
In my struggle to understand what Michal Štěpánek has been trying to
convey regarding his perspective of our efforts
or at least of mine, I
decided to approach him *off-line* as I was becoming increasing frustrated
(and somewhat embarrassed) at my inability to grasp what he was describing.
This was partially due to some language barrier I suspect, but mostly due
to my lack of understanding of the field/science of Systems Analysis, and
likely as well (I think) to some reduced mental bandwidth issues on my
part. :)
That said, Michal very patiently continued and recommended I read the following link.
http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-
places-to-intervene-in-a-system/
From: Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System By Donella
Meadows~
6. The structure of information flows (who does and does not have access to information).
There was this subdivision of identical houses, the story goes, except
that for some reason the electric meter in some of the houses was installed
in the basement and in others it was installed in the front hall, where the
residents could see it constantly, going round faster or slower as they
used more or less electricity. With no other change, with identical prices,
electricity consumption was 30 percent lower in the houses where the meter
was in the front hall.
We systems-heads love that story because it’s an example of a high
leverage point in the information structure of the system. It’s not a
parameter adjustment, not a strengthening or weakening of an existing loop.
It’s a NEW LOOP, delivering feedback to a place where it wasn’t going
before.
A more recent example is the Toxic Release Inventory — the U.S.
government’s requirement, instituted in 1986, that every factory releasing
hazardous air pollutants report those emissions publicly every year.
Suddenly every community could find out precisely what was coming out of
the smokestacks in town. There was no law against those emissions, no
fines, no determination of “safe” levels, just information. But by 1990
emissions dropped 40 percent. They’ve continued to go down since, not so
much because of citizen outrage as because of corporate shame. One chemical
company that found itself on the Top Ten Polluters list reduced its
emissions by 90 percent, just to “get off that list.”
Compelling feedback. Suppose taxpayers got to specify on their return
forms what government services their tax payments must be spent on.
(Radical democracy!) Suppose any town or company that puts a water intake
pipe in a river had to put it immediately DOWNSTREAM from its own outflow
pipe. Suppose any public or private official who made the decision to
invest in a nuclear power plant got the waste from that plant stored on
his/her lawn. Suppose (this is an old one) the politicians who declare war
were required to spend that war in the front lines.
4. The power to add, change, evolve, or self-organize system structure.
The most stunning thing living systems and some social systems can do is
to change themselves utterly by creating whole new structures and
behaviors. In biological systems that power is called evolution. In human
economies it’s called technical advance or social revolution. In systems
lingo it’s called self-organization.
Self-organization means changing any aspect of a system lower on this list
— adding completely new physical structures, such as brains or wings or
computers — adding new negative or positive loops, or new rules. The
ability to self-organize is the strongest form of system resilience. A
system that can evolve can survive almost any change, by changing itself.
The human immune system has the power to develop new responses to (some
kinds of ) insults it has never before encountered. The human brain can
take in new information and pop out completely new thoughts.
2. The mindset or paradigm out of which the system — its goals, structure,
rules, delays, parameters — arises.
Another of Jay Forrester’s famous systems sayings goes: it doesn’t matter
how the tax law of a country is written. There is a shared idea in the
minds of the society about what a “fair” distribution of the tax load is.
Whatever the rules say, by fair means or foul, by complications, cheating,
exemptions or deductions, by constant sniping at the rules, actual tax
payments will push right up against the accepted idea of “fairness.”
The shared idea in the minds of society, the great big unstated
assumptions — unstated because unnecessary to state; everyone already knows
them — constitute that society’s paradigm, or deepest set of beliefs about
how the world works. There is a difference between nouns and verbs. Money
measures something real and has real meaning (therefore people who are paid
less are literally worth less). Growth is good. Nature is a stock of
resources to be converted to human purposes. Evolution stopped with the
emergence of *Homo sapiens*. One can “own” land. Those are just a few of
the paradigmatic assumptions of our current culture, all of which have
utterly dumfounded other cultures, who thought them not the least bit
obvious.
The ancient Egyptians built pyramids because they believed in an
afterlife. We build skyscrapers, because we believe that space in downtown
cities is enormously valuable. (Except for blighted spaces, often near the
skyscrapers, which we believe are worthless.) Whether it was Copernicus and
Kepler showing that the earth is not the center of the universe, or
Einstein hypothesizing that matter and energy are interchangeable, or Adam
Smith postulating that the selfish actions of individual players in markets
wonderfully accumulate to the common good, people who have managed to
intervene in systems at the level of paradigm have hit a leverage point
that totally transforms systems.
You could say paradigms are harder to change than anything else about a
system, and therefore this item should be lowest on the list, not
second-to-highest. But there’s nothing physical or expensive or even slow
in the process of paradigm change. In a single individual it can happen in
a millisecond. All it takes is a click in the mind, a falling of scales
from eyes, a new way of seeing. Whole societies are another matter — they
resist challenges to their paradigm harder than they resist anything else.
So how do you change paradigms? Thomas Kuhn, who wrote the seminal book
about the great paradigm shifts of science,7
<http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/#seven> has
a lot to say about that. In a nutshell, you keep pointing at the anomalies
and failures in the old paradigm, you keep coming yourself, and loudly and
with assurance from the new one, you insert people with the new paradigm in
places of public visibility and power. You don’t waste time with
reactionaries; rather you work with active change agents and with the vast
middle ground of people who are open-minded.
Systems folks would say you change paradigms by modeling a system, which
takes you outside the system and forces you to see it whole. We say that
because our own paradigms have been changed that way.
A Final Caution
Back from the sublime to the ridiculous, from enlightenment to caveats.
There is so much that has to be said to qualify this list. It is tentative
and its order is slithery. There are exceptions to every item that can move
it up or down the order of leverage. Having had the list percolating in my
subconscious for years has not transformed me into a Superwoman. The higher
the leverage point, the more the system will resist changing it — that’s
why societies have to rub out truly enlightened beings.
Magical leverage points are not easily accessible, even if we know where
they are and which direction to push on them. There are no cheap tickets to
mastery. You have to work hard at it, whether that means rigorously
analyzing a system or rigorously casting off your own paradigms and
throwing yourself into the humility of Not Knowing. In the end, it seems
that mastery has less to do with pushing leverage points than it does with
strategically, profoundly, madly letting go.
This helps a lot Michal. I imagine I'll be referring to this list for some
time to come. Particularly # 1. (if you never hear from me again...you’ll
know why.)
Thanks so much,
Steve
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_
metagovernment.org
--
<https://about.me/micstepanek?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=edit_panel&utm_content=thumb>
Michal Štěpánek
about.me/micstepanek
<https://about.me/micstepanek?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=edit_panel&utm_content=thumb>
Michal Štěpánek
2018-02-08 10:52:39 UTC
Permalink
Actually,

there is more to tell, happiness is not everything. There are more indexes
to watch e.g. years of potential life lost, natural resources depletion,
global climate risk index and also animal protection index.

Cheers
m.
Post by Michal Štěpánek
Thank you a lot Steve,
as I see it now my explanation was too complicated, there are two terms
1. Sociology of happiness
2. Leverage points
I have a question for all. Please, are these two terms enough to
understand the concept? Please, does it say something to you? No, is an
acceptable answer :)
The old stuff about the leverage points ...
http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-
places-to-intervene-in-a-system/
Cheers
m.
Post by Steve Coffman
In my struggle to understand what Michal Štěpánek has been trying to
convey regarding his perspective of our efforts
or at least of mine, I
decided to approach him *off-line* as I was becoming increasing frustrated
(and somewhat embarrassed) at my inability to grasp what he was describing.
This was partially due to some language barrier I suspect, but mostly due
to my lack of understanding of the field/science of Systems Analysis, and
likely as well (I think) to some reduced mental bandwidth issues on my
part. :)
That said, Michal very patiently continued and recommended I read the following link.
http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-
to-intervene-in-a-system/
From: Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System By Donella
Meadows~
6. The structure of information flows (who does and does not have access to information).
There was this subdivision of identical houses, the story goes, except
that for some reason the electric meter in some of the houses was installed
in the basement and in others it was installed in the front hall, where the
residents could see it constantly, going round faster or slower as they
used more or less electricity. With no other change, with identical prices,
electricity consumption was 30 percent lower in the houses where the meter
was in the front hall.
We systems-heads love that story because it’s an example of a high
leverage point in the information structure of the system. It’s not a
parameter adjustment, not a strengthening or weakening of an existing loop.
It’s a NEW LOOP, delivering feedback to a place where it wasn’t going
before.
A more recent example is the Toxic Release Inventory — the U.S.
government’s requirement, instituted in 1986, that every factory releasing
hazardous air pollutants report those emissions publicly every year.
Suddenly every community could find out precisely what was coming out of
the smokestacks in town. There was no law against those emissions, no
fines, no determination of “safe” levels, just information. But by 1990
emissions dropped 40 percent. They’ve continued to go down since, not so
much because of citizen outrage as because of corporate shame. One chemical
company that found itself on the Top Ten Polluters list reduced its
emissions by 90 percent, just to “get off that list.”
Compelling feedback. Suppose taxpayers got to specify on their return
forms what government services their tax payments must be spent on.
(Radical democracy!) Suppose any town or company that puts a water intake
pipe in a river had to put it immediately DOWNSTREAM from its own outflow
pipe. Suppose any public or private official who made the decision to
invest in a nuclear power plant got the waste from that plant stored on
his/her lawn. Suppose (this is an old one) the politicians who declare war
were required to spend that war in the front lines.
4. The power to add, change, evolve, or self-organize system structure.
The most stunning thing living systems and some social systems can do is
to change themselves utterly by creating whole new structures and
behaviors. In biological systems that power is called evolution. In human
economies it’s called technical advance or social revolution. In systems
lingo it’s called self-organization.
Self-organization means changing any aspect of a system lower on this
list — adding completely new physical structures, such as brains or wings
or computers — adding new negative or positive loops, or new rules. The
ability to self-organize is the strongest form of system resilience. A
system that can evolve can survive almost any change, by changing itself.
The human immune system has the power to develop new responses to (some
kinds of ) insults it has never before encountered. The human brain can
take in new information and pop out completely new thoughts.
2. The mindset or paradigm out of which the system — its goals,
structure, rules, delays, parameters — arises.
Another of Jay Forrester’s famous systems sayings goes: it doesn’t matter
how the tax law of a country is written. There is a shared idea in the
minds of the society about what a “fair” distribution of the tax load is.
Whatever the rules say, by fair means or foul, by complications, cheating,
exemptions or deductions, by constant sniping at the rules, actual tax
payments will push right up against the accepted idea of “fairness.”
The shared idea in the minds of society, the great big unstated
assumptions — unstated because unnecessary to state; everyone already knows
them — constitute that society’s paradigm, or deepest set of beliefs about
how the world works. There is a difference between nouns and verbs. Money
measures something real and has real meaning (therefore people who are paid
less are literally worth less). Growth is good. Nature is a stock of
resources to be converted to human purposes. Evolution stopped with the
emergence of *Homo sapiens*. One can “own” land. Those are just a few of
the paradigmatic assumptions of our current culture, all of which have
utterly dumfounded other cultures, who thought them not the least bit
obvious.
The ancient Egyptians built pyramids because they believed in an
afterlife. We build skyscrapers, because we believe that space in downtown
cities is enormously valuable. (Except for blighted spaces, often near the
skyscrapers, which we believe are worthless.) Whether it was Copernicus and
Kepler showing that the earth is not the center of the universe, or
Einstein hypothesizing that matter and energy are interchangeable, or Adam
Smith postulating that the selfish actions of individual players in markets
wonderfully accumulate to the common good, people who have managed to
intervene in systems at the level of paradigm have hit a leverage point
that totally transforms systems.
You could say paradigms are harder to change than anything else about a
system, and therefore this item should be lowest on the list, not
second-to-highest. But there’s nothing physical or expensive or even slow
in the process of paradigm change. In a single individual it can happen in
a millisecond. All it takes is a click in the mind, a falling of scales
from eyes, a new way of seeing. Whole societies are another matter — they
resist challenges to their paradigm harder than they resist anything else.
So how do you change paradigms? Thomas Kuhn, who wrote the seminal book
about the great paradigm shifts of science,7
<http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/#seven> has
a lot to say about that. In a nutshell, you keep pointing at the anomalies
and failures in the old paradigm, you keep coming yourself, and loudly and
with assurance from the new one, you insert people with the new paradigm in
places of public visibility and power. You don’t waste time with
reactionaries; rather you work with active change agents and with the vast
middle ground of people who are open-minded.
Systems folks would say you change paradigms by modeling a system, which
takes you outside the system and forces you to see it whole. We say that
because our own paradigms have been changed that way.
A Final Caution
Back from the sublime to the ridiculous, from enlightenment to caveats.
There is so much that has to be said to qualify this list. It is tentative
and its order is slithery. There are exceptions to every item that can move
it up or down the order of leverage. Having had the list percolating in my
subconscious for years has not transformed me into a Superwoman. The higher
the leverage point, the more the system will resist changing it — that’s
why societies have to rub out truly enlightened beings.
Magical leverage points are not easily accessible, even if we know where
they are and which direction to push on them. There are no cheap tickets to
mastery. You have to work hard at it, whether that means rigorously
analyzing a system or rigorously casting off your own paradigms and
throwing yourself into the humility of Not Knowing. In the end, it seems
that mastery has less to do with pushing leverage points than it does with
strategically, profoundly, madly letting go.
This helps a lot Michal. I imagine I'll be referring to this list for
some time to come. Particularly # 1. (if you never hear from me
again...you’ll know why.)
Thanks so much,
Steve
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mail
man/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org
--
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Michal Štěpánek
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Steve Coffman
2018-02-09 02:46:32 UTC
Permalink
Very interesting.

https://www.democracy.earth

2.2 Voting.

The vote token aims to be a standard for digital democracy able to interoperate with other tokens, setting a common language for the governance of blockchain based organizations. Within the context of liquid democracies, a range of voting transactions is permitted with votes:

• Direct Vote: Selfish voter Alice is allowed to use her tokens to vote directly on issues as in a direct democracy.

• Basic Delegation: Alice may delegate votes to Bob. As long as Bob has access to those tokens he can use them to vote on Alice's behalf.

• Tag Limited Delegation: Alice may delegate votes to Charlie under the specified condition that he can only use these tokens on issues carrying a specific tag. If the delegation specifies that delegated votes can only be used on decisions with the #environment tag, then Charlie won't be able to use these anywhere else but on those specific issues. This leads to a representation model not based on territory but on knowledge.

• Transitive Delegation: If Bob received votes from Alice, he can then delegate these to Frank. This generates a chain of delegations that helps empower specific players within a community. If Alice does not desire to have third parties receiving the votes she delegated to Bob, she can turn off the transitive setting on the delegation contract. Circular delegations (e.g. Alice receiving the tokens she sent Bob from Frank) are prohibited since the original allocation of votes from an organization to its members carries a signature indicating who is the sovereign owner of the votes.

• Overriding Vote: If Bob already used the delegated votes he received from Alice but she has a different opinion on a given issue, as the sovereign owner of her votes Alice can always override Bob's decision. Voters always have the final word on any given decision with their original votes.

• Public Vote: Often referred as the golden rule of liquid democracies, all delegators have the right to know how their delegate has voted on any given issue with their votes. In the same way congressmen votes are public, on liquid democracies competing delegates on any given tag have an incentive to build a public reputation based on their voting record in order to attract more delegations.

• Secret Vote: A method able to guarantee vote transactions untraceable to the voter. This is indispensable in contexts of public elections held within large populations that have a high risk of coercion. Even if perfect secrecy on vote transaction is achieved, users can still be fingerprinted with exposed meta-data. For this reason, research on integration with blockchains designed for anonymous transactions with a proven track record is encouraged. This might include a mining fee to settle the vote transaction that can be either subsidized by the implementing organization or directly paid by voters. We recommend research and integration of secret votes with these blockchains:

• Ethereum: uses precompiled contracts for addition and scalar multiplication on the elliptic curve alt_bn128, for pairing checks, which permit zk- SNARKs, also see here, as implemented in the Byzantium hard fork.

• ZCash: implements shielded transactions using zero-knowledge proofs.

• Monero: uses ring signatures with stealth addresses.


2.3 User Experience.

User Experience (UX) is a critical aspect of a decentralized architecture and becomes even more important as the redundant layers of centralized architectures condense to the user. In a centralized internet architecture, the user does not own the interface or experience. In a decentralized internet architecture, the user interface (UI) should be based on the user's perspective. In this sense, transactions get done under three distinct views:

• Self: Using a public identity related to an individual.

• Organization: In representation of an organization that extended representation rights to individuals (e.g. workplace, club, political party, etc).

• Anonymous: Without any connection to a public identity.

This understanding of SELF / ORG / ANON shape-shifting requirement highly influenced our interface and token design. At any given time a Sovereign user can adopt any of these modes to interact with decentralized organizations.
Scott Raney
2018-02-09 05:18:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Coffman
Very interesting.
https://www.democracy.earth
Meh, it's just a rehash of the failed LiquidFB system. I've been
trying to explain to them exactly how LiquidFB failed and why their
system doesn't address any of the real problems in it (see the
"Issues" tab on https://github.com/DemocracyEarth/paper), but to no
avail. They're quite skilled at marketing (getting funding, getting
conference invites etc.) but unfortunately seem to be almost
completely clueless when it comes to any of the scientific or
engineering issues that they'd need to deal with to create something
capable of replacing our existing systems. That and they're just
incorrigible fanboys of blockchain. It's like arguing with religious
fanatics. They really have no good explanation of why blockchain
technology is even relevant to the problem of public policy
decisionmaking, but, again, it's all about the marketing with those
guys.

(snip)
Post by Steve Coffman
• Secret Vote: A method able to guarantee vote transactions untraceable to
the voter. This is indispensable in contexts of public elections held within
large populations that have a high risk of coercion. Even if perfect secrecy
on vote transaction is achieved, users can still be fingerprinted with
exposed meta-data. For this reason, research on integration with blockchains
designed for anonymous transactions with a proven track record is
encouraged. This might include a mining fee to settle the vote transaction
that can be either subsidized by the implementing organization or directly
paid by voters. We recommend research and integration of secret votes with
Right: They don't know how to provide this but just have some vague
feeling that it's necessary. Which of course, as I've provided lots of
*scientific* evidence for in the Matchism manifesto and the help
system for proxyfor.me, is simply not true.
Regards,
Scott
Jacopo Tolja
2018-02-09 17:07:32 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Siri that ia a driving force behind democracy.earth have a long story
in direct democracy starting with the vote in Argentina's capital Buenos
Aires and behind the democracyOS, blockchain is just the decentralised
media.
Peace
J

LA DITTATURA PERFETTA AVRA' LA SEMBIANZA DI UNA DEMOCRAZIA, UNA PRIGIONE
SENZA MURI NELLA QUALE I PRIGIONIERI NON SOGNERANNO MAI DI FUGGIRE. UN
SISTEMA DI SCHIAVITU' DOVE, GRAZIE AL CONSUMO E AL DIVERTIMENTO, GLI
SCHIAVI AMERANNO LA LORO SCHIAVITU.
A.H.
Post by Scott Raney
Post by Steve Coffman
Very interesting.
https://www.democracy.earth
Meh, it's just a rehash of the failed LiquidFB system. I've been
trying to explain to them exactly how LiquidFB failed and why their
system doesn't address any of the real problems in it (see the
"Issues" tab on https://github.com/DemocracyEarth/paper), but to no
avail. They're quite skilled at marketing (getting funding, getting
conference invites etc.) but unfortunately seem to be almost
completely clueless when it comes to any of the scientific or
engineering issues that they'd need to deal with to create something
capable of replacing our existing systems. That and they're just
incorrigible fanboys of blockchain. It's like arguing with religious
fanatics. They really have no good explanation of why blockchain
technology is even relevant to the problem of public policy
decisionmaking, but, again, it's all about the marketing with those
guys.
(snip)
Post by Steve Coffman
• Secret Vote: A method able to guarantee vote transactions untraceable
to
Post by Steve Coffman
the voter. This is indispensable in contexts of public elections held
within
Post by Steve Coffman
large populations that have a high risk of coercion. Even if perfect
secrecy
Post by Steve Coffman
on vote transaction is achieved, users can still be fingerprinted with
exposed meta-data. For this reason, research on integration with
blockchains
Post by Steve Coffman
designed for anonymous transactions with a proven track record is
encouraged. This might include a mining fee to settle the vote
transaction
Post by Steve Coffman
that can be either subsidized by the implementing organization or
directly
Post by Steve Coffman
paid by voters. We recommend research and integration of secret votes
with
Right: They don't know how to provide this but just have some vague
feeling that it's necessary. Which of course, as I've provided lots of
*scientific* evidence for in the Matchism manifesto and the help
system for proxyfor.me, is simply not true.
Regards,
Scott
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