[MG] Crowdsourced governance for Facebook

[Steve Coffman]

I’m thinking about kickstarting a campaign to crowdsource a governance structure sufficient to take over policymaking at Facebook?
Without user support, the entire platform would collapse. I believe a targeted strategy with the threat of a BDS campaign might do the job.
Your thoughts
.

From a recent interview with Zuckerberg by Ezra Klein on “Vox”.

"I certainly think that’s a fair question. My goal here is to create a governance structure around the content and the community that reflects more what people in the community want than what short-term-oriented shareholders might want. And if we do that well, then I think that could really break ground on governance for an internet community. But if we don’t do it well, then I think we’ll fail to handle a lot of the issues that are coming up.”

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/2/17185052/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-interview-fake-news-bots-cambridge

Specifically, what platform would be best to use in order to develop a list of goals, demands, or shared policy objectives, etc.?

And what wording would work best to get the meme going?

An example:



Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
***@stevecoffman.com

[Jacopo Tolja]

impossible I will say to be really short. FB is a Company not own by the
users.
What make you believe that a crowdsource project could impose any rules?
Would you trust MZ or any shareholder?
In Italy a party with "direct democracy" "dna" has just won the election
but the DD platform is closed source!!!
I feel so sorry for myself just to be an Italian.
Regards to all
j

Post by Steve Coffman
I’m thinking about kickstarting a campaign to crowdsource a governance
structure sufficient to take over policymaking at Facebook?
Without user support, the entire platform would collapse. I believe a
targeted strategy with the threat of a BDS campaign might do the job.
Your thoughts
.
From a recent interview with Zuckerberg by Ezra Klein on “Vox”.
"I certainly think that’s a fair question. My goal here is to create a
governance structure around the content and the community that reflects
more what people in the community want than what short-term-oriented
shareholders might want. And if we do that well, then I think that could
really break ground on governance for an internet community. But if we
don’t do it well, then I think we’ll fail to handle a lot of the issues
that are coming up.”
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/2/17185052/mark-zuckerberg-
facebook-interview-fake-news-bots-cambridge
Specifically, what platform would be best to use in order to develop a
list of goals, demands, or shared policy objectives, etc.?
And what wording would work best to get the meme going?
Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_
metagovernment.org

[Anthony Dunn]

You know, even if they won't adopt a truly functional form of DD, they can
still be made to look bad for not doing so, as it's one of the moments in
which they cannot hide their true colors.

Post by Jacopo Tolja
impossible I will say to be really short. FB is a Company not own by the
users.
What make you believe that a crowdsource project could impose any rules?
Would you trust MZ or any shareholder?
In Italy a party with "direct democracy" "dna" has just won the election
but the DD platform is closed source!!!
I feel so sorry for myself just to be an Italian.
Regards to all
j

Post by Steve Coffman
I’m thinking about kickstarting a campaign to crowdsource a governance
structure sufficient to take over policymaking at Facebook?
Without user support, the entire platform would collapse. I believe a
targeted strategy with the threat of a BDS campaign might do the job.
Your thoughts
.
From a recent interview with Zuckerberg by Ezra Klein on “Vox”.
"I certainly think that’s a fair question. My goal here is to create a
governance structure around the content and the community that reflects
more what people in the community want than what short-term-oriented
shareholders might want. And if we do that well, then I think that could
really break ground on governance for an internet community. But if we
don’t do it well, then I think we’ll fail to handle a lot of the issues
that are coming up.”
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/2/17185052/mark-zuckerberg-facebo
ok-interview-fake-news-bots-cambridge
Specifically, what platform would be best to use in order to develop a
list of goals, demands, or shared policy objectives, etc.?
And what wording would work best to get the meme going?
Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801 <(541)%20621-0801>
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mail
man/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org

_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_
metagovernment.org

[Steve Coffman]

The users don’t own the company but they can boycott the advertisers. That might shake things up a bit. If that doesn’t work, then couple the boycott with a shareholder divestment campaign. If that doesn’t do it, then adding in a campaign to *Delete* FB might be sufficient to force MZ to accept users demands for access to some level of crowdsourced policymaking.

We need to begin somewhere. Every which way we turn it’s the same thing; entrenched corporate elite running the show. The only way we're ever going to prevail is to stand up en masse and use the powers we do have to build a new system. Facebook and other global social media platforms are readymade for organizing large numbers of people very efficiently. Seem like a no brainer to me. But yes, it is a crazy idea.

impossible I will say to be really short. FB is a Company not own by the users.
What make you believe that a crowdsource project could impose any rules?
Would you trust MZ or any shareholder?
In Italy a party with "direct democracy" "dna" has just won the election but the DD platform is closed source!!!
I feel so sorry for myself just to be an Italian.
Regards to all
j
I’m thinking about kickstarting a campaign to crowdsource a governance structure sufficient to take over policymaking at Facebook?
Without user support, the entire platform would collapse. I believe a targeted strategy with the threat of a BDS campaign might do the job.
Your thoughts
.
From a recent interview with Zuckerberg by Ezra Klein on “Vox”.
"I certainly think that’s a fair question. My goal here is to create a governance structure around the content and the community that reflects more what people in the community want than what short-term-oriented shareholders might want. And if we do that well, then I think that could really break ground on governance for an internet community. But if we don’t do it well, then I think we’ll fail to handle a lot of the issues that are coming up.”
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/2/17185052/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-interview-fake-news-bots-cambridge <https://www.vox.com/2018/4/2/17185052/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-interview-fake-news-bots-cambridge>
Specifically, what platform would be best to use in order to develop a list of goals, demands, or shared policy objectives, etc.?
And what wording would work best to get the meme going?
<Screen Shot 2018-04-02 at 10.16.50 AM.png>
Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/ <http://www.metagovernment.org/>
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org <http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org>
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org

Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
***@stevecoffman.com

[Pietro Speroni di Fenizio]

For a long time I thought that the way forward with FB would be for FB to
introduce real democratic rules to handle its groups. Once thaat was in
place, then other entities could have been handled in the same way. Also FB
itself (although I never went far enough to even thinking it, because as
Jacopo points out FB is a company). One time at a web event where I was
about to speak, I met a google engineer who was also another speaker. So
the evening before I had some time to speak with him, and what he told me
crashed all my hopes:
Q) what do you do if someone has a really cool idea for FB?
A) we try our best to ignore him, and even avoid hearing what he has to say?
Q) What???
A) There are too many issues with patents, and litigations, and who owns
what idea, and so on. And FB does not want to get involved with all that.

And that was the first part. Even if the first part was so negative, I
still went forward about the second set of questions. I asked him about
eDemocracy as could be implemented in FB. And saying that they were in the
perfect positionto really transform the world. I don't remember the exact
answer he gave me but it was really disheartening. Something along the
lines that FB does not give a s#!+ about this, and would never implement
any of this. I remember at the time I was quite hopeful. FB had just
introduced various forms of polling, and thought eDemocracy was just one
short step ahead. After that we went backward, and many polling tools were
later retracted (and only left for groups), and then thngs changed again.
And so on.

At the end I reached the conclusion that FB, like political systems, are
really hard to renovate. And the easiest way is to start a new system
planning things well from the beginning.

Which is what I am now working on in the crypto sphere (see my recent
youtube videos if you are curious about it).

So I don't think this will succeed. But maybe, hopefully, I am wrong.

P


----------

Dr. Pietro Speroni di Fenizio,

Home Page: http://www.pietrosperoni.it

Post by Steve Coffman
The users don’t own the company but they can boycott the advertisers. That
might shake things up a bit. If that doesn’t work, then couple the boycott
with a shareholder divestment campaign. If that doesn’t do it, then adding
in a campaign to *Delete* FB might be sufficient to force MZ to accept
users demands for access to some level of crowdsourced policymaking.
We need to begin somewhere. Every which way we turn it’s the same thing;
entrenched corporate elite running the show. The only way we're ever going
to prevail is to stand up en masse and use the powers we do have to build a
new system. Facebook and other global social media platforms are readymade
for organizing large numbers of people very efficiently. Seem like a no
brainer to me. But yes, it is a crazy idea.
impossible I will say to be really short. FB is a Company not own by the users.
What make you believe that a crowdsource project could impose any rules?
Would you trust MZ or any shareholder?
In Italy a party with "direct democracy" "dna" has just won the election
but the DD platform is closed source!!!
I feel so sorry for myself just to be an Italian.
Regards to all
j

Post by Steve Coffman
I’m thinking about kickstarting a campaign to crowdsource a governance
structure sufficient to take over policymaking at Facebook?
Without user support, the entire platform would collapse. I believe a
targeted strategy with the threat of a BDS campaign might do the job.
Your thoughts
.
From a recent interview with Zuckerberg by Ezra Klein on “Vox”.
"I certainly think that’s a fair question. My goal here is to create a
governance structure around the content and the community that reflects
more what people in the community want than what short-term-oriented
shareholders might want. And if we do that well, then I think that could
really break ground on governance for an internet community. But if we
don’t do it well, then I think we’ll fail to handle a lot of the issues
that are coming up.”
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/2/17185052/mark-zuckerberg-facebo
ok-interview-fake-news-bots-cambridge
Specifically, what platform would be best to use in order to develop a
list of goals, demands, or shared policy objectives, etc.?
And what wording would work best to get the meme going?
<Screen Shot 2018-04-02 at 10.16.50 AM.png>
Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mail
man/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org

_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_
metagovernment.org
Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_
metagovernment.org

[Steve Coffman]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply Pietro.

btw...I couldn’t find any of your recent YouTube videos on crypto sphere.

Post by Pietro Speroni di Fenizio
Q) what do you do if someone has a really cool idea for FB?
A) we try our best to ignore him, and even avoid hearing what he has to say?
Q) What???
A) There are too many issues with patents, and litigations, and who owns what idea, and so on. And FB does not want to get involved with all that.
And that was the first part. Even if the first part was so negative, I still went forward about the second set of questions. I asked him about eDemocracy as could be implemented in FB. And saying that they were in the perfect positionto really transform the world. I don't remember the exact answer he gave me but it was really disheartening. Something along the lines that FB does not give a s#!+ about this, and would never implement any of this. I remember at the time I was quite hopeful. FB had just introduced various forms of polling, and thought eDemocracy was just one short step ahead. After that we went backward, and many polling tools were later retracted (and only left for groups), and then thngs changed again. And so on.
At the end I reached the conclusion that FB, like political systems, are really hard to renovate. And the easiest way is to start a new system planning things well from the beginning.
Which is what I am now working on in the crypto sphere (see my recent youtube videos if you are curious about it).
So I don't think this will succeed. But maybe, hopefully, I am wrong.
P
----------
Dr. Pietro Speroni di Fenizio,
Home Page: http://www.pietrosperoni.it <http://www.pietrosperoni.it/>
The users don’t own the company but they can boycott the advertisers. That might shake things up a bit. If that doesn’t work, then couple the boycott with a shareholder divestment campaign. If that doesn’t do it, then adding in a campaign to *Delete* FB might be sufficient to force MZ to accept users demands for access to some level of crowdsourced policymaking.
We need to begin somewhere. Every which way we turn it’s the same thing; entrenched corporate elite running the show. The only way we're ever going to prevail is to stand up en masse and use the powers we do have to build a new system. Facebook and other global social media platforms are readymade for organizing large numbers of people very efficiently. Seem like a no brainer to me. But yes, it is a crazy idea.

impossible I will say to be really short. FB is a Company not own by the users.
What make you believe that a crowdsource project could impose any rules?
Would you trust MZ or any shareholder?
In Italy a party with "direct democracy" "dna" has just won the election but the DD platform is closed source!!!
I feel so sorry for myself just to be an Italian.
Regards to all
j
I’m thinking about kickstarting a campaign to crowdsource a governance structure sufficient to take over policymaking at Facebook?
Without user support, the entire platform would collapse. I believe a targeted strategy with the threat of a BDS campaign might do the job.
Your thoughts
.
From a recent interview with Zuckerberg by Ezra Klein on “Vox”.
"I certainly think that’s a fair question. My goal here is to create a governance structure around the content and the community that reflects more what people in the community want than what short-term-oriented shareholders might want. And if we do that well, then I think that could really break ground on governance for an internet community. But if we don’t do it well, then I think we’ll fail to handle a lot of the issues that are coming up.”
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/2/17185052/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-interview-fake-news-bots-cambridge <https://www.vox.com/2018/4/2/17185052/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-interview-fake-news-bots-cambridge>
Specifically, what platform would be best to use in order to develop a list of goals, demands, or shared policy objectives, etc.?
And what wording would work best to get the meme going?
<Screen Shot 2018-04-02 at 10.16.50 AM.png>
Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/ <http://www.metagovernment.org/>
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org <http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org>
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/ <http://www.metagovernment.org/>
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org <http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org>

Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/ <http://www.metagovernment.org/>
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org <http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org>
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org

Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
***@stevecoffman.com

[Pietro Speroni di Fenizio]

Hi Steve,
"recent" when applied to my youtube channel means "in the last year" ;-).

And here it is:

Cheers,
Pietro


----------

Dr. Pietro Speroni di Fenizio,

Home Page: http://www.pietrosperoni.it

Post by Steve Coffman
Thanks for your thoughtful reply Pietro.
btw...I couldn’t find any of your recent YouTube videos on crypto sphere.
On Apr 3, 2018, at 12:15 AM, Pietro Speroni di Fenizio <
For a long time I thought that the way forward with FB would be for FB to
introduce real democratic rules to handle its groups. Once thaat was in
place, then other entities could have been handled in the same way. Also FB
itself (although I never went far enough to even thinking it, because as
Jacopo points out FB is a company). One time at a web event where I was
about to speak, I met a google engineer who was also another speaker. So
the evening before I had some time to speak with him, and what he told me
Q) what do you do if someone has a really cool idea for FB?
A) we try our best to ignore him, and even avoid hearing what he has to say?
Q) What???
A) There are too many issues with patents, and litigations, and who owns
what idea, and so on. And FB does not want to get involved with all that.
And that was the first part. Even if the first part was so negative, I
still went forward about the second set of questions. I asked him about
eDemocracy as could be implemented in FB. And saying that they were in the
perfect positionto really transform the world. I don't remember the exact
answer he gave me but it was really disheartening. Something along the
lines that FB does not give a s#!+ about this, and would never implement
any of this. I remember at the time I was quite hopeful. FB had just
introduced various forms of polling, and thought eDemocracy was just one
short step ahead. After that we went backward, and many polling tools were
later retracted (and only left for groups), and then thngs changed again.
And so on.
At the end I reached the conclusion that FB, like political systems, are
really hard to renovate. And the easiest way is to start a new system
planning things well from the beginning.
Which is what I am now working on in the crypto sphere (see my recent
youtube videos if you are curious about it).
So I don't think this will succeed. But maybe, hopefully, I am wrong.
P
----------
Dr. Pietro Speroni di Fenizio,
Home Page: http://www.pietrosperoni.it

Post by Steve Coffman
The users don’t own the company but they can boycott the advertisers.
That might shake things up a bit. If that doesn’t work, then couple the
boycott with a shareholder divestment campaign. If that doesn’t do it, then
adding in a campaign to *Delete* FB might be sufficient to force MZ to
accept users demands for access to some level of crowdsourced policymaking.
We need to begin somewhere. Every which way we turn it’s the same thing;
entrenched corporate elite running the show. The only way we're ever going
to prevail is to stand up en masse and use the powers we do have to build a
new system. Facebook and other global social media platforms are readymade
for organizing large numbers of people very efficiently. Seem like a no
brainer to me. But yes, it is a crazy idea.
impossible I will say to be really short. FB is a Company not own by the users.
What make you believe that a crowdsource project could impose any rules?
Would you trust MZ or any shareholder?
In Italy a party with "direct democracy" "dna" has just won the election
but the DD platform is closed source!!!
I feel so sorry for myself just to be an Italian.
Regards to all
j

Post by Steve Coffman
I’m thinking about kickstarting a campaign to crowdsource a governance
structure sufficient to take over policymaking at Facebook?
Without user support, the entire platform would collapse. I believe a
targeted strategy with the threat of a BDS campaign might do the job.
Your thoughts
.
From a recent interview with Zuckerberg by Ezra Klein on “Vox”.
"I certainly think that’s a fair question. My goal here is to create a
governance structure around the content and the community that reflects
more what people in the community want than what short-term-oriented
shareholders might want. And if we do that well, then I think that could
really break ground on governance for an internet community. But if we
don’t do it well, then I think we’ll fail to handle a lot of the issues
that are coming up.”
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/2/17185052/mark-zuckerberg-facebo
ok-interview-fake-news-bots-cambridge
Specifically, what platform would be best to use in order to develop a
list of goals, demands, or shared policy objectives, etc.?
And what wording would work best to get the meme going?
<Screen Shot 2018-04-02 at 10.16.50 AM.png>
Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mail
man/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org

_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mail
man/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org
Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mail
man/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org

_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_
metagovernment.org
Steve Coffman
268 Myer Creek Rd.
Ashland, OR
97520
541-621-0801

[Patrick Anderson]

Once we discover the 'right' way to manage shared resources, maybe it would
be more effective for we, the users, to collectively own the hardware
needed to host a FB alternative.

We would be the shareholders, but For Product instead of For Profit
(meaning we would own the Means of Production because we want the results).

This way we would no longer need to beg Z to do the 'right' thing, we could
just migrate our accounts and ignore FB.

Is this realistic?

[Scott Raney]

Post by Patrick Anderson
Once we discover the 'right' way to manage shared resources, maybe it would
be more effective for we, the users, to collectively own the hardware needed
to host a FB alternative.

As in a government-run tax-dollar-supported database for sharing this
type of information. Makes sense to me, and would have a lot of
advantages over current systems:
1) No advertising and the manipulation that enables

2) We could build it as an API which would allow:
a) User choice of UI (i.e. you could have skins to make it look
like any current system or some sort of hybrid)
b) User control over the matching algorithms (e.g., filter out all
the cat videos your friends post)
c) Allows search for content (this is a glaring hole in FB: You
can't search for posts by topic)

3) We could implement proper authentication to eliminate bots and
other fake accounts, something that will never be done by any
advertising-supported system because the economics actually *reward*
them for allowing these things.

Unfortunately we probably need a functioning democracy to get anything
like this implemented and so building that is what we should be
concentrating on. It's also important to keep in mind that
FB/Twitter/WeChat/etc. are all doomed in the long run (as is the case
for pretty much *all* technology that we seem to believe is
indispensable and irreplaceable) so IMHO none of them are really worth
getting your shorts in a bunch about. Again, we should be
concentrating on what the next system should look like rather than
trying to find ways to patch up the (probably unsolvable) problems
with the existing systems.
Regards,
Scott

[Patrick Anderson]

Hi Scott,

The vision I am trying to describe is not hoping a government would do this
(and I assume government will actively fight against thus to protect the
corporations that fund them).

What I mean is that groups of consumers should pool their money ( like
crowd funding) to buy and own the hardware directly - without any
representatives to stop us from achieving our goals.

It is within this private property where we would implement the next system
as an experimental private government.

[harold l Carpenter]

That is a very good idea.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Patrick Anderson
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2018 10:29 AM
To: Metagovernment Startup Committee
Subject: Re: [MG] Crowdsourced governance for Facebook

Hi Scott,

The vision I am trying to describe is not hoping a government would do this (and I assume government will actively fight against thus to protect the corporations that fund them).

What I mean is that groups of consumers should pool their money ( like crowd funding) to buy and own the hardware directly - without any representatives to stop us from achieving our goals.

It is within this private property where we would implement the next system as an experimental private government.

[Jacopo Tolja]

In Italy with 15000 user on the Airesis platform did not happen,when we ask
for fund to continue development and move to iroku platform to be more
scalable.
I believe that giving the platform so that groups can establish their
decisional does not work if there is at least a federative rulemaking group
where everyone on the platform act on a geographical level in automatic.
The active members responsibility is to widen the participation

Post by harold l Carpenter
That is a very good idea.
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10
*Sent: *Friday, April 27, 2018 10:29 AM
*Subject: *Re: [MG] Crowdsourced governance for Facebook
Hi Scott,
The vision I am trying to describe is not hoping a government would do
this (and I assume government will actively fight against thus to protect
the corporations that fund them).
What I mean is that groups of consumers should pool their money ( like
crowd funding) to buy and own the hardware directly - without any
representatives to stop us from achieving our goals.
It is within this private property where we would implement the next
system as an experimental private government.
_______________________________________________
Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project
http://www.metagovernment.org/
Manage subscription: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_
metagovernment.org